Episode 8 - Camp Bullis Sentinel Landscape RCPP

[Intro] 
BW: The Land Steward Podcast is brought to you by the Texas A&M Natural Resources Institute. We have relatable conversations and share helpful resources for land stewards like you—no matter how you relate to the land. So grab your hat, and join us outside.
[Intro music]  
BW: Hi, welcome to the Land Steward Podcast. This is your host BW, and I am so thrilled to be back in the studio with two of the most incredible experts that I'm so excited to bring to you today who have been working around the clock for landowners in Texas the last couple of months as we have launched into the Camp Bullis Sentinel Landscape Regional Conservation Partnership Program. So first, I do want to introduce you to who's sitting right in front of me. So, I've got Erin Davis who is coming to us from the Texas Forest Service, and I also have George Clendenin. Hi. 
GC: How you doing Brittany?
BW: [laughs] Thanks for joining me. And so I'm going to talk to you guys a little bit about some of the new programs that are available for Texas landowners and a little bit about some of the funding and technical assistance that you now have different options for exploring depending on where you are in the state of Texas. We talk a lot on this podcast about the different funding mechanisms, the money on the table for Texas landowners who are willing to have a conservation mindset as they're stewarding their slice of Texas, which is really exciting and encouraging for conservation leaders and for natural resource professionals who are trying their best to make sure that their research gets put in the right hands. So today, I'm going to bring to light some of these programs that have both those funding mechanisms, but also the technical assistance in the background. So these are very similar to those programs that we've talked about from NRCS, like EQIP, that many Texans take advantage of every year. We've also talked about programs from the Texas A&M Forest Service, programs with Parks and Wildlife, which you guys know is near and dear to my heart, that just, I mean, simply are there to support those management activities that you have on your property and at the end of the day to help support the bottom line that you have in conservation. This program is really unique as Erin and George will tell you a little bit about because the Sentinel Landscape Program for Camp Bullis is the very first one in Texas. NRI is pretty unique in the way that we're situated. And we're also unique in that we can bring in experts like Erin and George to help support those relationships between natural resources and national defense. So NRI is assisting some of these departments in implementing what we call a Sentinel Landscape, which is in layman terms, it's when we can look at the land that buffers those military installations and make sure that we're supporting the landowners who are there, their management practices, make sure that we're prioritizing the things that are important to them so that we can not only protect the military mission, but also ensure that we're providing the right resources so that land can stay open space land and working lands for landowners in the state. The Sentinel Landscape program in and of itself is a huge feat for the US, mostly just again to protect that military mission to make sure that we have these really incredible training areas available. Thinking about the Sentinel landscape program, especially in the state of Texas, we know that the DOD manages about, it's like 1.7 million acres in Texas. And we think about how many acres are in the state of Texas, you know, at the nexus of the private landowners and the 95, 96% of the state that's owned by private landowners and then this really large swath of land that's owned by the DOD, there's definitely an opportunity for collaboration there. So that's why the Sentinel Landscape Program is so unique. But now that you guys have heard me talk a lot about the Sentinel Landscape Program, I do wanna kick it over to George and Erin to share with you guys about this specific Camp Bullis Sentinel Landscape Conservation Partnership Program that's happening right now and continuing to grow and develop. So, George, tell me a little bit about your background. I wanna know how you got into this program.  
GC: Okay, great. And thanks, Brittany, for having us on your program too, we're excited to be here. So I was with the US Department of Agriculture, the NRCS as a rangeland specialist for 20 years. 
BW: Wow.
GC: So I've got to work in some of the most beautiful lands in Texas and worked out West for about half that career and finished up over here on the other half the career. So my primary job was with land stewardship and working with landowners. 
BW: I love that, and I love hearing about your background and I think that's it's so relatable when you think about natural resource specialists because we come from so many diverse backgrounds. We have tons of different experiences that we bring to the table so that we can be stronger and more resilient collaborators. So I love hearing a little bit about your background and I know Erin you came from the Forest Service. What was your main role before you came over to the Institute? 
ED: Yeah, I was a Staff Forester with the Texas A&M Forest Service for seven years. I was based in Kerrville in the Hill Country and I helped landowners and communities with tree diseases, like oak wilt, and land management.
BW: Oh, very cool.
ED: I grew up on the edge of the hill country, in a suburb of Austin, but through that job I really fell in love with the beauty and natural resources of this area.
BW: Well, as most people who listen to the podcast are highly aware, the Hill Country is near and dear to my heart, but the Hill Country is unmatched. Like there's nothing like that area. I want to talk a little bit about the area for the Camp Bullis Sentinel landscape. Can you describe for the program what area we're talking about specifically for that Sentinel Landscape program? 
GC: Yes, so our project is joint-base San Antonio Camp Bullis, and so we have almost a million acres of land outside the fence of Camp Bullis so it incorporates for the majority it's going to be Comal, Kendall, Medina, Bandera, and Bexar to make up that portion. It's watershed based so we do have a project area that's shown on our website and we're just really excited to be working with the landowners in that area. 
BW: And the vehicle, the funding vehicle, or really the program vehicle that helps support the Camp Bullis Sentinel Landscape is through an RCPP. 
GC: Yes. 
BW: Right? Which is a regional conservation… partnership program. Thank you. Can you talk a little bit about the RCPP program and the background and where that came from? 
GC: Yes, so working for the NRCS, I remember seeing about the concept of regional conservation planning and we all thought it was a great idea because we would work with whichever landowners were in our area, whichever counties that we worked in, whoever would come through our doors, but the idea of a regional conservation plan is very effective and this isn't just doing what one landowner needs, but what does the collective area really need, what is the number one importance and so being able to work in a watershed or a regional plan is… offers so much more benefits than just working with individual landowners in a community. So we're able to address larger scale items. The main objective for our RRCPP, ecologically speaking, is water. We're above the Edwards Aquifer, we’re in a zone of recharge. So that's something everyone agrees on, the water being our most important resource. But being able to be able to pool our collaboration of like-minded individuals, of partners and interests to be in a cohesive fabric, so to speak, to be able to meet these objectives. That's really what RCPP is about. And we're not just talking about it from a science-based standpoint, which is great. And that's one of the things I love about NRI is because it really is applied science. And Erin and I have this wonderful job is that we get to meet with these landowners. And we've been meeting with some really amazing people. And it could be just a couple that have been there forever. It could have been their generations that have been there. Just, you know, the nicest 85-year-old people meeting in front of their dining tables hearing their story. Being able to be invited and be part of that. And to be able to help them out through this funding. It's just a remarkable place that we get to do. 
BW: Yeah, and I love the way you described even just the setting of, you know, you have people walk through the door and it's immediately about creating a relationship with them and you understand because you work in that area, you understand what their challenges are before they even come through the door, which is cool. And I think that's really important for landowners too, who, you know, for them to walk through the door to start to have conversations with an organization that they may not be very familiar with, just to ask what opportunities exist. That's a big deal, especially in the state of Texas. And for you guys to be there, to be able to support them, because you're aware of the challenges and you're also aware of what some of those solutions and support systems are. To me, that's like, that is the foundation of land stewardship and working as a collaboration and working in partnership with them. So it's definitely encouraging for me to hear some of these stories, but I am really intrigued to learn about just the different conversations that you're having with landowners. Are you, what is that like? What is the exchange like because I definitely know that you know sometimes the crux is if you don't know what to expect, if you're a landowner and you're trying to figure out if this is the right fit for you, what is that first conversation like, what are the things that they need to be prepared to ask or do they need to come prepared with?
GC: Yeah if I can start with that and Erin I'd love to hear from you too as well, but I think the table has already been set for us before we even got there. The people that you mentioned, the network that we have out there, this is the beautiful thing about working with AgriLife and NRI is that we really feel like we're all on the same team. I mean working with nonprofits, working with conservation agencies, working with other government agencies, working with the landowners. A lot of times before we even get there, they've already got an email or they've heard from one of the other partners or partners or alliances so they're welcoming us as a friend. I mean they might know a lot about our program but I think the table has already been set as far as there's such a great network in the Hill Country. You can just tell everyone is passionate again and we're all on the same team.
ED: Yeah, exactly. So when we meet with landowners we don't expect them to be super familiar with the Camp Bullis Sentinel Landscape or maybe the Natural Resources Institute, so we're happy to share our story, explain what we do, and also highlight that we're not just working in the area—we're part of the community and we live here too. As George mentioned, landowners might recognize some of our partner organizations, which is great – that is the goal, you know, to bring partners together, landowners and our shared knowledge
BW: Very cool. And I love the way that you guys describe what it’s like to be fully immersed in those communities so you can absolutely have those organic conversations, you have relevant experiences, I love that.
ED: Yeah. And we’ve definitely encountered some confusion with the connection to Camp Bullis and the military, but Sentinel Landscapes are really about the ecological impact when we manage our natural resources across the landscape, across a broader area. So, it’s a partnership designed to support military readiness while also landowners and the surrounding communities.
BW: 100%. We talk a lot at the Institute about, what really does… what does the nexus of military land sustainability and wildlife and natural resources management look like? What does that look like in real life? When we’re putting together these plans, people like Erin and George have an expertise that makes all the difference in the world both for landowners and the military land managers. George, you mentioned the website. We do have a website.
GC: Yes. 
BW: We're gonna link it for you guys in the show notes, but it is...
GC: CampBullisRCPP.nri.tamu.edu.
BW: We're gonna link the URL and the show notes for you guys so you can hop right in there and kind of just get a little bit more familiar with the background of Sentinel Landscapes, what the Sentinel Landscape partnership is truly about, and then how that Sentinel Landscape came to be in the state of Texas. Again, being the very first one, this came with a ton of challenges as they were trying to navigate what a Sentinel Landscape in Texas looks like and then thinking about the Camp Bullis area as being this testbed for how to work with landowners better who own property around that military installation and what those partnerships can really do to offer them success in what they're…. in their land stewardship goals. So these critical military buffer areas for the state of Texas are definitely priorities for us. But in this site, as you guys can hop through and watch some of the incredible videos that are on here, George and Erin did a really good job of really describing the project area. There's this beautiful map that's super easy to read so you guys can kind of get oriented with where the Sentinel landscape area is. Do you guys get to travel in a lot of the different places in the landscape?
GC: Yes. And so that is something that we're really excited about. And so what I tell people is that what I really enjoy working with Erin and the teamwork that we have together is that we're not just bureaucrats and we're not just scientists. We really bring both that we can speak the government language, but we also understand the land and we understand the cultural resources. We understand people and to be able to hear their stories again across the kitchen table. That's really important to us and for them to be able to share things, there is no one going to know more about the land than someone who lives on the land. And to hear their stories about caves that they found or archaeological digs species of birds or plants, you know, they're excited to share that information with us. To answer about, you know, do we travel a lot, our methodology when they come through our website is  that we make owner contact with every eligible participant and we make an appointment or we try our very best to meet with them on the land and so we actually do a site visit that's part of our methodology we want to meet everyone we're just not talking to them over the phone and to talk about the actual Camp Bullis and the mission, you know this this is what makes it different than any other RCPP is you know protecting the military readiness. Our particular area is Joint Base San Antonio, Camp Bullis. Now we, Erin and I, aren't working anything inside the fence, although we're working with a lot of collaborators that do. What we're looking for is outside the fence, but we also want to know what is important to the military and for our center, as far as Camp Bullis, there's two main things that they've, that we've had conversations with them. They want to keep it dark on the north side. That's where they have a combat runway. That's where they do their night vision and NODS training. That's where they train their combat medics. It's very unique. So they want to keep it dark. Well that objective, that mission objective in the base is also an objective outside the base because we have dark skies and we have people looking at that too that have nothing to do with DoD or military Camp Bullis so here we have a joint collaborative interest and so that's part of the beauty of the RCPP we can combine those. The other things Camp Bullis looks at is flooding. You know they lost two individuals to flooding, which should never happen. One was a soldier and one was a civilian. So what happens upstream is important what happens in these riparian areas is really important. So Erin and I, we're looking at, you know, as far as the land management part, some of the criteria that we're actually ranking individuals, it's looking at those two items. You know, can we keep it dark on the north side? And what can we do to improve the uplands? What can we do to improve these named waterways?
BW: I'm really glad you brought that up to thinking about the idea that there are so many common interests that may or may not have anything to do with DOD or, you know, and they're not even really thinking about the implications of things like, you know, we talk a lot about urbanization and especially in that area, one of the critical challenges of developing a Sentinel Landscape is knowing that that land is meant to be preserved. It used to be remote and now it's becoming less and less year over year as our populations increase, the demand for land increases, and that those dark skies are getting harder and harder to achieve unless you're in areas where it's not truly feasible to be developing and to have large acreage for military training and installation. So I'm glad you brought that up because I think that that having those, being able to identify what those common interests are between partners is critical for your role and we've heard from some other folks in the Sentinel Landscape world where they're running really slim teams just like you guys where you have you know a few a handful of people who are working at the heart of these challenges but you're not just meeting with installation folks, and you're not just meeting with landowners, you're meeting with city government, you're meeting with your planning crews, you're meeting with even your local organizations and NGOs. It's anyone who to your point can come to the table and have this conversation about those shared interests that happen to also benefit the military mission and what your landowners are looking for. So just recently I worked with Erin, who is just amazing at her job, at pulling together the very first part of the application process for the Camp Bullis Sentinel Landscape. So the very first part of it do you want to talk about how it's how it's kind of divided and we ran first with the first opportunity of funding and now there's another one that's coming up?
ED: Yeah, sure. So it is two parts. The first part focused on conservation easements. In fall of 2024, we opened applications for landowners in the project area who wanted to preserve their land in perpetuity as natural spaces or working agricultural lands. Through that program, they could apply for this RCPP funding to help establish those conservation easements. And that ensures they retain ownership of the land, possibly passing it down generations or, if it’s sold, it remains intact and protected from development.
BW: Okay, so then the second part is for more assistance, right? 
ED: Yes, exactly. The second part focuses on the land management portion, which provides funding for landowners to implement conservation practices on the ground. For example, one of the practices we’re emphasizing is establishing riparian buffers. And so these are vegetative areas along streams and rivers to help slow down water speed during flood events, increase infiltration down into the soil and create basically a sponge-like environment to protect our waterways. And this is really important, as George mentioned before, for managing flood impacts downstream near the base and also for water recharge into the Edwards and Trinity aquifers.
BW: Right, exactly. Which, you know, is of course important, actually pretty critical when we’re talking about supplying drinking and even utility water. For sure.
ED: Yeah, definitely. And beyond that, our program will also support wildlife management and prairie restoration, things like prescribed grazing plans and planting and seeding native grasses, or forbs and trees and all that good stuff.
BW: So some of the things that I've seen from other programs that have run through RCPP funding, they've looked at how they can support landowners not just from riparian area management but things like rotational grazing, things like making sure their fences are maintained. Those things that we wish as landowners that someone else would help support the funding for because it would help our bottom line at the end of the year and those those are day to day very critical management aspects. Do you find yourself having lots of conversations about like water pipelining or fence lines, things like that?
GC: Yes, so what we're working on now with this land management release that Erin's talking about, which should be around the second week of January. Our website will be operational. We're asking everyone, even our partners or our friends to go recommend their landowners to go to our website. That's really the first part and we'll make contact with you. But we've taken an exhaustive amount of time, a labor of love to come up with, what can we do to make the biggest impact on the land? What can we do that all of our partners are in agreement with both inside and outside the fence of Camp Bullis? What can we do with the main conservation resources and concerns that we talked about? And so using NRCS standards and specifications which you know I'm very familiar with the beauty part of the RCPP that makes us different where this is not a if you're worked with your local NRCS office this is not a normal EQIP contract this is not an NRCS contract this is something totally different. It's RCPP. With the criteria that we're developing, we don't have to be a broad spectrum. We can be more specific. And so the things that, like Erin is talking about, we're looking at more scenarios. We want to go in there with a system. Again, we're a science-based organization. We're filled with some of the most wonderful scientists in the world here, and Erin and I, being technical experts in this area as well. So, we're able to custom craft a specific programming criteria. So, what we're looking at is being able to go in there like a system and be able to say, we can restore your uplands. You know, let's look at the brush that's there now, let's look at some selective brush clearing, let's look at our ecological to site description, return it back to the community of climax or transitional vegetation, which is always a great idea when we talk about water. You know, what do we need to do to restore this to ecological conditions? And so it might involve removing some brush, it might involve turning some soil, doing some range planning, working with only natives. That's the only thing we're going to be working with here, and that's what makes it unique. Being able to work through some soil health issues as far as, you know, we know that a lot of the soil health in the Hill Country is depleted. It's very minimal depth. It's highly organic. It's just, I mean, if we go back culturally, the first immigrants that actually arrived, they brought their culture from another country with higher stocking. It's, they weren't used to this Hill Country with two or three inches of you know highly organic soil, but when you lose it, it's gone. So we're looking at some soil health issues to see what we can do. Now these are all like things that they'll make an immediate impact to the landowner, but again, we're talking regional. We're talking big impact, you know long after we've gone, you know, hopefully those communities will still be managed. So with that we're also working with prescribed grazing, you know, we're actually teaching that was a big part of my job is, you know, just talk talking to landowners. It's like again, let's look at this system here and prescribed as grazing doesn't mean we don't want cows, it just means what will your land support? What will it sustain, right? And it could be wildlife. It could be cattle. It could be a combination of both. It could be recreation. It could be birds. So to be able to actually work through a conservation plan with them, which prescribed grazing is a big part of the Hill Country, so we're excited to hit the ground running and start writing some of these plans.  
BW: Thanks for sharing that. One of the earliest memories that I have of when we really first started diving in on our property in the Hill Country, conveniently for this conversation. We started having conversations with AgriLife Extension and then I went to Parks and Wildlife and then I went to NRCS. And from that conversation with NRCS, we also did a site visit and I learned so much about the vegetation, what we're managing what we have capacity for, and more than anything and most importantly is that we were way over capacity on the livestock that was out there and even our deer carrying capacity was way over. So we could see the depletion happening on the soil level from what we were seeing for grass types, and on some of those browse lines. And I've talked a little bit about this in previous episodes, but being able to make the decision based on this conservation mindset that in that moment, so this was a couple of years ago, we had to reduce our herd by 40% in order to maintain a healthy range land. Knowing that in the long term that was going to serve us tenfold compared to simply just maintaining the number that we had, and being able to see the difference, I mean so quickly in a handful of years on the regrowth, on the fact that I don't hardly ever see bare ground anymore. Which was - that was normal. I grew up with that. And… our…. so we've, our property has been in our family since 1854. And we have always had larger herds. We've always probably been over carrying capacity, but that was just the way it was always done. That is the number that we had maintained. We were over supplementing. I mean, most of what they were eating was cubes and supplemental feed because there wasn't anything on the ground. So hearing you talk about prescribed grazing, that was to me, aside from doing, being a part of the MLD program, that was a springboard for us, was making that decision to say, we're gonna pivot what we have done for the last 100 years on cattle carrying capacity and understand that our bar is much lower than what we thought it was and what the land can actually sustain. That was a multi-generational decision because we have a family partnership on our property, and it was not easy. It was a critical decision that had to be made. Thankfully we gained consensus, you know, after much deliberation, you know, around the actual dinner table, you know, which is another, a whole other aspect of this is that you guys are working with, You know, you mentioned a lot of the historical ranches that were in some of the areas that you're working in, and I think that's common for NRCS. But especially for this situation, for the Camp Bullis Sentinel Landscape, as you're thinking about what land has been fragmented and the smaller properties and, you know, the increase in the number of landowners that you all are dealing with, that's probably less of, you know, You're probably seeing less of those historical ranches around the San Antonio/Camp Bullis area because of fragmentation, because of population increase. Have you seen some of that? 
GC: Yes, and may I first say about your story, thanks for sharing that, because that is something that we would run into a lot and it's a very familiar story to us, but that you were willing to listen, that you were willing to change, and you're willing to implement a new program that, for you, that's not easy for a landowner, and especially when they come from a historic or a legacy family. So, great kudos to you. 
BW: Yeah, I'll let my grandpa hear you say that because he'll be very, he'll be very happy.   
GC: Grandpa, if you're listening, she done good. We get that story a lot and so what I've talked to people about, it's like, well this, this is how many had my great-granddaddy ran. Well, he probably had greater soil health. He probably had greater soil depth. So, it's really not apples to apples anymore. And so, someone be able to listen to that. That's really good. We love that. 
ED: But yeah, this part of the Hill Country, I mean, it's growing. There's more smaller acreage landowners and you had an episode on small acreage and you talked about how they… they're thirsty for knowledge and they want to do the right thing, and what's exciting about this is you know we can help you not just with the technical assistance but hopefully the financial assistance to help get you there a little faster maybe. 
GC: And managing small acreage is different than managing large. I mean when I was out west, we measured land in sections. It was very easy to be on 10,000 acres or 20 sections. But it's different here, not bad different, but it's different. And so, a lot of this land fragmentation has occurred. And when we look at Camp Bullis and most, three sides are covered by Bexar County, and the West, East, and the South, they're pretty much developed. There's some places there, but it's very, it would be very unique to find a place over 50 acres out there and I've been running into where North, I mean, Comal County still has some great areas, Kendall, Bandera, Medina, but that doesn't mean, you know, we're throwing in the towel for any of the counties. There's just a different way to manage for urban environments, there's a different way to manage for small acreage, and there's a different way to manage for large acreage. And so, we're here to help. 
BW: Your expertise is so critical. Especially thinking about you guys almost being on standby continuously to help support some of these landowners so that they have the best resources to make the best choices for where they are.
ED: Yeah, absolutely. We’re here to help. And it’s a two-way street. I learn so much from landowners, walking around their properties and hearing their stories and experiences too. So I really value that as well. 
BW: Yeah. Very cool. I do want to kind of walk through, because we've talked about a lot of things. We've talked about just the background of Sentinel Landscapes, and now there are 17 Sentinel Landscape partnerships across the United States. And having this really unique opportunity to be the first one in Texas and thinking about the challenges that come with this being mostly a private land state, knowing that it's so individually managed on that parcel level, when we think about stewardship on a landscape scale, so having the Camp Bullis Sentinel Landscape and thinking about just the benefits to the military mission, but also really being able to support the landowners who are here in the state. I want to give the landowners a clear idea of what's the step-by-step process. If they were intrigued by this conversation, if it's something that they feel like would be a benefit to them if they're in that seven-county area. What would you say is their… the first thing they need to do? 
GC: Okay, that's a very good question. Thanks for asking that, Brittany. So, we are working with the NRCS, their field offices. This is USDA money, but AgriLife is the lead partner. So, we're coming up with a criteria, we're doing the boots on the ground work, we're coming up with a conservation plan, we're working with the landowners. But the way the process will actually work is - the field office, the NRCS can get walk-ins, and they can say, “Okay well I'm interested in this RCPP program because BW says it's awesome and we want to apply.” That's great, they can make contact with the field office and the field office will contact us and they will hopefully redirect their customer or that person who walked into our website. That's really the starting point. We just, that's gonna be our single point of contact. We need everyone to come to our website and fill out a pre-application. There's nothing binding about it. There's nothing legally binding anyone to it. It's just our contact to you and it gets us on a database so we don't forget about you so we can actually take care of you. So getting on our website doing a pre -application and then Aaron or myself will be able to call you and actually make a field visit and then we'll bring the necessary paperwork, we'll direct you on what you need to do and then we'll actually be able to just drive around with you and just ask you about your land and what you would like to do on it and then we can share with what we can offer and see if there's something we can help you with. And if there is, then we'll help you go to the next step of the application process. One of the things that we really encourage everyone to do as well is they need to set up farm records with the Farm Service Agency. If they're gonna move forward to contracting. Sometimes that takes a little time. Some of our customers are already in the system, But that's one of the steps of the process as well, but being able to do the field work It might take a few visits to do actually do the groundwork of what we need. We can do everything with handheld phones as far as doing the ArcGIS information and the mapping that we need to do. That's what Erin's really forte is working with that through the Forest Service background as well. So we'll pull all of these technological resources together, the resources we have on technical expertise, what the landowners are actually looking for, and we put it together in a plan, in a conservation plan. We tie dollars to that based on USDA payment rates for our RCPP, so we can really tell you at that time based on the units, as far as how many feet of fence or how many acres of brush or how many acres of range seeding. We can actually tell the landowner if this project or this application goes forward into a contract, this is how much money you're gonna get. But they would understand at that point, this is what USDA's agreeing to do, and this is what you've agreed to do as far as our conservation plan. We don't want anyone to be intimidated with the process. Really, you make first contact with our website, and we'll take care of you. If I could mention too because we were talking about land management contracts now. We're really, as Erin kind of said earlier, we're beginning to wrap up our first sign up for easements, but on our website we still have a portal that if you're still interested in a conservation easement, go ahead and contact us. The RCPP technically is a five-year project, it started in 2024 so we have several years to work this out with our budget that we have. We have 1.8 million for conservation easements, we have 4 million for land management contracts and that's flexible we I might be modifying the contract to put more money to the conservation easements, we see a big value on that. But we're hoping this is so successful we get to the end of the program, and we ask for a project renewal and we keep it going because the Hill Country really deserves it. 
BW: Yeah, it deserves it, needs it for sure. Especially with the risk of the natural resources depletion over time as the population increases. Can you tell me how many, at this point, how many conservation easement applications you have from landowners in Texas?
GC: So, through our website and through our connections, we have 23 official pre-applications. 
BW: Wow.
GC: Now out of those, we've, through the interview process, through the criteria process, many of those weren't eligible for one reason or the other. And we have the certain questions that we ask to make sure they meet our criteria to keep the apples to apples. But out of those, we have eight that are really viable and we really have some really great places. And these go up from 50-ish acres to over 580-acre places.
BW: Could you imagine collectively, that's acreage that is, to Erin's point, conserved in perpetuity for the state of Texas. That's every bit, every drop of water, every square inch of wildlife habitat, your dark skies there, that's great. 
ED: It's not just benefiting the landowner, right? It's, you know, San Antonio is right there and all those people rely on clean drinking water from the Hill Country, from these lands. 
GC: Yeah, we personally get jazzed about the conservation easement side because, you know, there's a few scenarios we keep running. I mean, they’re either landowners that have been there a while, or maybe just purchased in the '80s, but their children love it. Their grandchildren love it. These are wonderful family memories. The entire family's on board. We wanna keep this in perpetuity. The other scenario is that maybe the children aren't interested, but the landowners themselves, have such a passion for the land. I mean these people become master naturalists but their legacy is to basically put it in a program where they're gonna benefit people. They haven't even met yet people that don't even know yet. People that are going to need water long after them. So dealing with those different types of scenarios, that's really a wonderful thing. 
BW: Knowing that there are landowners who are willing to do that, to be able to preserve and conserve that property the way that it is, to remove the risk of development or fragmentation, especially thinking about military training and preserving the military mission, that would be a hard sell to not win. You know what I mean? Like that would be great. So, to your point, we never know if we're going to continue to get that funding, but to know that the interest is there I think is key in continuing those federal conversations. I'll echo what our director says he says you know our people are our best asset and I think that that could not be truer. It's nice to know that we have people like you, George and Erin, in the background really advocating for these things and these important places and the way that we can push conservation forward. Do you have anything else you want to share with our land stewards? 
GC: So, moving forward I would just say you know even if you haven't totally made up your mind if this is for you or not, check our website out. Make contact with us. There's no harm in that. We'll be happy to talk with you. We're looking forward to that. Don't let the process intimidate you. We're here to help. It's really Erin and I, we're the whole team. [laughter] So, but we're really anxious to help. This is something we're really excited about. We're really passionate about. So, we want to meet you. We want to work with you so please don't hesitate to contact us.
ED: Yeah and as I was digging into this program and learning about it myself, like I realized the versatility of it and how it can apply to so many different landowners. Whether you’re a wildlife enthusiast, a hunter, or you’re running cattle, there’s something in this program that can help you while also helping the Sentinel Landscape goals as well. For example, if you’re really into birding you want to protect dark skies for the birds’ migration, and that also helps with Camp Bullis’ nighttime ops training, and they need to continue doing that as well. And so yeah, there’s just so many avenues this program can take depending on what kind of landowner you are. Whether you’re just coming into conservation work or you’ve been doing it for generations. And just having the heart to do good and be a good land steward. Additionally, there are several other Regional Conservation Partnership Programs across the state, so it’s not just this Camp Bullis Sentinel Landscape RCPP, there’s others. So I encourage your listeners to explore maybe what’s available in their area by searching for that. 
 GC: I'll add to that too, cause she really, Erin really hit on a really good point is that that's been the wonderful part of working with the group that we're working with is that we're not really competitors, we're really collaborators. And so if we can't help you on a program, we'll be glad to help direct you to someone. And we've already seeing where if we can't really help you, we're gonna send you to REPI. You know, if REPI can't help them, they send them to us. If RCPP, our program, someone doesn't really quite in our boundary area, we know where else to send them to. So that's really the cool part of this whole collaboration. 
BW: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up too. And just the history of RCPP and how many other ones actually exist outside of Camp Bullis Sentinel Landscape’s, thinking of this as a vehicle for not just funding, but also technical support and guidance. And we talk a little bit about this in our How to Find a Natural Resource Professional episode and then the lesson that's online that just helps guide you, you know, to those county offices to make that first contact. And I'll echo what George and Erin have shared is just making that initial contact is the hardest part of it. The rest of it is about the experience and building the relationship and allowing that gate to swing open and let people help you so that you can meet your economic bottom line and also your management goals. So that we can start looking at this on a landscape scale, on a larger scale where we start talking about maybe not sections or in million-acre areas like out west but so that we can start looking at this as a collective. You know we're looking at it from the scope of what if we could achieve supporting landowners in the entire million-acre project area like what a feat that would be. So I think it's cool to, you know, take a step back and take a bird's-eye view at the land that's around the military base and in these the project counties and to think about the possibilities of all of those landowners working together and those relationships being facilitated by the partnerships that are driven by the RCPP and the Camp Bullis Sentinel Landscape. Thank you, George and Erin for joining me on the Land Steward Podcast. I am absolutely ecstatic about sharing this project with our listeners and with our broader partners, because I think this is just a message that can be shared with landowners across the state, that there are programs and partnerships like this that exist simply to support you in your land stewardship goals and efforts. So thank you again for joining the podcast.  
ED: Thanks for having us.
GC: Thanks for having us, Brittany.
BW: Okay, so until next time, your homework is to check out the links and some of the suggestions that we're going to put down in the show notes. This is BW, your host. Thanks for listening to the Land Steward Podcast. 
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ED: Did I end it okay?
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BW: Hey there, it’s BW. I just wanted to say thanks for listening. We are so grateful for those of you who have been with us since episode one, and for those of you who continue to join us every single month. We’re also really grateful for the experts and partners who come on and share an immense amount of wisdom for the land stewards in Texas and beyond. So, remember to subscribe to The Land Steward Podcast when you have a second and shoot us a note if you ever have any questions about the resources and research that we share right here on the podcast. Until next time, we’ll talk soon.