Episode 2 - The Endangered Species Act with Shelby McCay (Part 1)
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[Intro music]
[0:20]
BW: Hi! Welcome to The Land Steward Podcast. I’m your host, BW, and I am absolutely excited to be back in the booth with you for episode two of The Land Steward Podcast where we’re going to talk about the Endangered Species Act, specifically for Texas landowners and land stewards. Today, though, I have a special guest with me who I am absolutely honored to introduce to you. She and I have had some really exciting times over the last 6 years, but I have had the privilege of working with her at the Texas A&M Natural Resources Institute where she’s taught me a whole lot about what it means to really try and hone in on the technology that we have for communications. She specializes in distance education and her background is really incredible. So welcome to the podcast, Shelby McCay!
SM: Thank you so much, Brittany, I’m excited to be here!
BW: Yeah! Shelby is just absolutely brilliant and if you have not had an opportunity to meet her in person, I hope you do soon. She really has kind of changed the game for us in terms of what private land stewardship education looks like. Not only for mostly, you know, our Texas land steward audiences, but also for the students who we consider the next generation of land stewards. Specifically, between our work between the Institute and the Department of Rangeland, Wildlife, and Fisheries Management at Texas A&M University. So, again, welcome to the podcast Shelby. I would love for you to kind of give a little bit of your background and tell people the story of how you came to the Natural Resources Institute.
SM: Sure! So, I graduated with a degree in Wildlife and Fisheries Sciences from Texas A&M in 2015, but before leaving here the first time I met my now current boss, Jim Cathey, at the Conservation Leaders for Tomorrow program down at the Welder Wildlife Foundation and that was where I first learned how to hunt. Before then I had never… I had maybe picked up a firearm once or twice in my life, and there they got me fully hunter certified; I got to go on a pheasant hunt with Jim and, you know, I was hooked ever since. After leaving Texas A&M, I went and worked for Texas Parks and Wildlife for a little while in their state parks and wildlife divisions and then from there I went and worked for SpaceX doing their environmental consulting and compliance work down at their Boca Chica launch site. And after doing that for a year I decided “I want to go back to school and get my master’s,” so, came back to Texas A&M, did a 2.5 year master’s where I focused a lot on endangered species conservation – not particularly under the Endangered Species Act, but under the IUCN Red List, which is kind of a separate categorization scheme, but they both kind of feed into each other and they’re both incredibly important for species conservation. So, after that I came and worked at the Texas A&M Natural Resources Institute with Jim. I was a student worker throughout my master’s and now I’ve been full-time for about four years. So, love it.
BW: Very cool. Yeah, my very first interaction, or some of my very first interactions with Shelby were when she was getting her master’s degree and I had the privilege of actually listening in on her thesis defense and I was blown away by the work that’s done all over the world to try and figure out, you know, the status of some of these species and just how complex and how complicated that can be and how many partners it actually requires to do that kind of work. And Shelby was sitting right there in the center of all of that, and I just felt like I… I mean I was making brain connections I had never made before. It was an incredible presentation and I have just been in awe of some of the work that she’s done. I have been able to follow her around on some of her other projects, specifically the ones that are closer to home dealing with the Navasota ladies’ tresses here, and she tolerated me following her around with a camera.
SM: Oh, you did great! I loved it.
BW: That was almost a year ago! I think it was a year ago.
SM: It was a year ago, yep.
BW: It was so hot, and I think I came away with like several hundred, like little tiny micro-tears of like vines.
SM: Oh, all that greenbrier.
BW: Yeah, but I loved every second of that! I even jumped – or leapt maybe might be the better word – across this creek that is like twice as wide as I am tall. I’m 5’2 for reference. But, when Shelby did it, she looked so graceful just like traipsing through there and looked amazing, and just an incredible scientist like through-and-through and it is, again, an honor to be able to work with her and follow her around and get to tell the story of her work. I do want to talk a little bit about what you’ve been doing specifically in the last year. I know that you are part of the Teer cohort, which is through the Texas Chapter of the Wildlife Society, and it is, I mean honestly, some of the cream of the crop young professionals in Texas who are dealing with wildlife in some shape, form, or capacity. So, do you want to talk a little bit about what Teer is, and how the Institute has been a part of Teer for the last like 5 or 6 years or so?
SM: Yeah, definitely. So, I am a current fellow in the James G. Teer Conservation Leadership Institute which is a young professional leadership development program. It goes on for a full year and the main goal of it is to, you know, give us leadership skills, communication skills, so we can someday become the next leaders in the Texas Wildlife Society and profession at-large. Another part of it is a big year-long project, and our project for this year, since it is the 50th anniversary of the Endangered Species Act, is to put together a symposium with experts from around the country, high-level people, to gather them in one room and just kind of gather their knowledge and celebrate the past 50 years and look to the future 50 years. And, as kind of a changing of the guard, you know, make sure we preserve this knowledge. Especially, we’re even gonna have one of the original authors of the Endangered Species Act, which I think is super cool, and I’m super excited to talk to him.
BW: Yeah, no kidding. Could you imagine? Just the idea, I think, of being a part of a group of these young professionals getting to facilitate that conversation between, potentially one of the original authors of the ESA and these very, I would say, high profile, high impact, conservation-minded leaders in the space who are simply there to share their experience with the next generation? I have chills literally saying this out loud right now. And the fact that you get to be a part of this group that is creating space to make that happen is, and sometimes that’s, to me that’s a crucial part of being a part of the Natural Resources Institute is that we have to create space for this stuff. You have to be able to identify the need. And this specifically, just as you were saying, having a time and a place dedicated to pulling these people together, all at the same time…
SM: Yes!
BW: …in person – which is huge! A huge feat in and of itself. And then to be able to have these just meaningful, open discussions about what happens when rubber meets the road with these species. Because, at the end of the day, like it is, it’s our responsibility and if we can’t find a way to have these conversations that knowledge that they have and that experience that they have sometimes gets lost in that, in that transition and over time. And if we aren’t just good stewards of that discovery and of that information, I just couldn’t imagine, like being able to do some of the work that they’ve done and continuing that forward without something like this. So, I know this has been a ton of work.
SM: Yeah, it’s all been good though! A lot of, I’ve really enjoyed it. I mean this has been such a good skillset to build, and then just the connections I’ve made so far before even meeting these people in person.
BW: Yeah, no kidding.
SM: I cannot wait to see all of them and see all of us in one room, and you know, just gather that information, and create some best management practices going forward. I mean, since its inception in 1973 to now, it has changed so much in how this legislation is enacted, you know, the regulations and policies that have come from it. It drives so much of our work in the wildlife field. I mean, it’s huge. And just to kind of think about how it’s gonna change in the next 50 years, just seeing how much it’s changed since it began. It’s really exciting.
BW: Yeah, it makes me think – you said 1973 – and it makes me realize I’m still in that generation that thinks of the ‘70s as 30 years ago…
SM: Oh same.
BW: …and it’s definitely not. That, yeah, we are exactly 50 years ago and that is, I mean, what a feat. That’s incredible. So, something that has been top of mind for us is trying to figure out a way to get you guys, listeners of the podcast, in the room. To give you a behind-the-scenes look during the symposium, on the day in November – which I think the symposium is…
SM: Yeah, November 14th.
BW: Yeah November 14th, and where is it?
SM: At the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center in Austin, Texas. Beautiful, natural history botanical garden, I’m really excited to go there.
BW: I cannot believe you guys are doing it at the Center! So, the podcast is gonna be there. We’re gonna try to have some side room conversations, try to just give you guys a little bit of a sneak peek of what’s going on and to hear directly from some of the influential people that will be in the room, including, I think you mentioned the head of DoD Natural Resources will be there.
SM: Yes.
BW: And then you mentioned a couple of other ones.
SM: Yeah, the head of the Texas Nature Conservancy, we have some head people from industry, Texas Agricultural Land Trust – their head is coming, U.S. Fish and Wildlife – we have the head of Ecological Servies…
BW: Oh my goodness.
SM: …coming and he’s giving a keynote. It’s just gonna be jam-packed, awesome day. And we’re also going to have Ed Roberson from the Mountain and Prairies Podcast come and he’s gonna do his own episode – kind of a more “looking forward what does the next 50 years look like?” based on that last panel that we’re planning on having. So, lots of fun stuff.
BW: Okay! So, be on the lookout for part 2 of episode 2 that will be coming out right after the November 14th Endangered Species Act Symposium in Austin. I’m excited to be in that room and to bring you guys along for that.
[Transition music]
[11:46]
BW: Okay, so diving in here with Shelby to just share some knowledge with you guys on the background of the Endangered Species Act – Shelby, can you tell us why the Endangered Species Act was needed, to begin?
SM: Sure, so looking back in the U.S., wildlife populations were declining in kind of this, the earlier part of the century. Mostly from overexploitation, habitat destruction. So, our government basically wanted to try to solve this problem through legislation, and their first attempt at it was the Endangered Species Preservation Act, or the ESPA, which was passed in 1966. Which was meant to help different currently endangered species, one of which was the whooping crane which was declining very rapidly and was looking like it was not gonna make it.
BW: Wow, that’s right.
SM: Yeah, I think it was down to less than like 20 individuals, it was, it was pretty dire straits. And basically this legislation directed the Department of Interior to carry out different conservation and restoration programs, but this first piece of legislation wasn’t really enough to protect these species. There wasn’t really enough enforcement or penalties for destroying their habitat or potentially harming these species. So, also kind of part of what prompted creating a more impactful legislation was the Convention on International Trade of Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora, which is also called CITES, back in 1973. And this was basically an international treaty that basically every nation in the world signed on to, to better regulate trade of species. You know, there were a lot that were traded for meat, medicine, leather, you know all kinds of things that were really causing their wild populations to decline and causing them to become endangered. So, this treaty basically set regulations for how you can trade these species if at all.
BW: So then, something else happened in 1973, thankfully…
SM: Yes. So, in 1973, in December, President Nixon signed the Endangered Species Act into law.
BW: Okay, so given the background on the ESPA, which was definitely not enough, there wasn’t enough in place to really, I guess make a positive impact in protecting wildlife, and then the CITES in 1973 was more trade regulations. What was the original purpose of the ESA signed in 1973?
SM: So, overall, the main purpose - it’s pretty simple, is to just protect and recover these threatened and endangered species and their ecosystems on which they depend. Yeah, if you don’t have habitat, you don’t have species…
BW: Right.
SM: …so we need to protect both.
BW: Yeah, which is just at the heart of a lot of the conversations that we have about endangered species and land stewardship. If we are not good stewards of the land, you know, who’s going to be? You know? We’re here and trying to make sure that we’re using the right science and data is so critically important. So, as with any kind of policy or legislation or law that’s put into place, it might take a minute to really understand and comprehend the language in some of those documents. Could you, kind of, go through a couple of the terms that we hear a lot, which are endangered, threatened, and then this term take that we hear. I think that some of the questions that we have, even for our own scientists and research – “is this officially listed? Is it a threatened species, or is it actually endangered?”. Can you walk me through a little bit of what those terms mean?
SM: Sure. Yeah, so kind of starting at a little bit of the highest level would be endangered. So, a species that is listed as endangered under this Act is one that’s in danger of extinction throughout either all or a significant portion of its range. And really, they’re at the highest level of importance they need our help the most. Kind of going after that is threatened species, so these are species that are likely to become endangered species within the foreseeable future, throughout, again, all or a significant part of its range. So, it’s kind of a two-tier system with the Act as far as classifying species for listing. And then kind of the… probably one of the biggest terms in the, in this Act is take. And it has a very specific definition which is: to either harass, harm, pursue, hunt, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, or collect, or attempt to engage with any of these acts for a listed species. So, it encompasses quite a bit related to these species and trying to conserve them.
BW: Yeah, it gives us, I would say, a really comprehensive look at the directives involved once a species is listed and how we can interact with them just in general. Could you walk us through a little bit about how this works? I know that the Institute is incredibly involved in endangered species work and I know that there are some steps that need to be taken for us to determine if this is even a species that needs to be looked at, because at the end of the day, there are only so many people, so many hands, and so many brains working on this. And there’s, I mean, we’re at, we’re limited in capacity on how we can work together, so I know there are some… a couple of efficient solutions that the Institute has been a part of for a really long time, can you talk a little bit about how that works?
SM: Sure! Yeah, so here at the Institute we have a team that their whole job is conducting what are called Species Status Assessments. And this is basically a baseline of where the species currently sits. So, where does it occur? What is its habitat? What are the threats to it? And, you know, basically the current condition of the species, because if we don’t know how they’re doing currently, how can we, you know, direct research and where we need to go to help conserve them.
BW: Right, right. You can’t measure what you don’t know. For sure.
SM: Exactly!
BW: Okay…I…so then, I know that after a species is determined, you know, I guess if we determine that they’re meant to be listed, there is a specific listing process. And I think it’s a 6-step process, is that right?
SM: Correct, yeah, yeah. So, there’s a 6-step process, it takes usually almost 2 years to go through with all the processes. So, the first step is a petition to list the species. So, anyone can petition to list a species. Most of the time it’s people with NGOs, or researchers that believe that, you know, these species need to be listed. So, a petition is submitted, and then there’s a 90-day review of that petition by U.S. Fish and Wildlife or the National Marine Fisheries Service, depending on if it’s a terrestrial species or a marine species. So, Fish and Wildlife takes terrestrial, National Marine Fisheries takes marine species. Once that 90-day review is completed, there’s a status review of that review and public comment is accepted for the species, so anyone can go to the Federal Register, find this review, and make a comment. You know, in favor of listing the species, against, just kind of… or if they have information that they want to provide for it, they can do that there. After that public comment period is over, there’s a 12-month finding to determine if the listing is warranted or not. So, it can go one of, either way. So, either the listing is warranted, and that species is listed as either threatened or endangered, or it’s not found warranted and the species is not listed and this whole process can start over at a later date if people want to. Whatever the determination is, then that proposed rule is published in the Federal Register so it’ll either be listed or not. And then after that, the final rule is published for the species and that’s basically the determination at that current time.
BW: I mean, just in listening to you go through those steps that’s a minimum of 15 months if everything is incredibly efficient.
SM: Yes.
BW: Just for a single species to be able to make a listing decision and to be able to propose that final rule on their species status, and that is… that’s incredible to me that we put in the resources required for that long of a lead time to really make sure we’re doing our due diligence. And, in Texas, I think that this is a really unique situation, because, as you all know, especially as land stewards yourselves, Texas is 95% privately owned, and of that about 84% of that land is open space or working lands. You know, whether it has ag production or maybe it’s a family farm or forest, but generally just that open space land. And when you’re working with researchers who are trying to figure out if a species listing is warranted, especially during that 12-month finding period or when we’re working on a species status assessment, you have to build relationships with private landowners if you want access to where that habitat is. That can be a tricky situation, I think. Especially if there is a perception of risk involved for the private landowner. And depending on the type of species, if it’s a species that the community is not necessarily connected to, some conflicts and challenges arise there. Because it’s a balance of private landowner rights, and if a landowner wants to grant access to researchers and if they think that their work is warranted, and the fear that maybe it might... honestly it might affect their economic bottom line if they’re not able to resume practices as usual. And you guys hear me say “bottom line” and “at the end of the day” a lot, but honestly without the work of landowners, conservation of threatened and endangered species under the ESA would not be possible, simply because we are a private land state. Thankfully, there are a couple of different segments involved in the ESA and listing process that prioritize and protect not only the species and the rights of the species, but also the rights of the landowners so that some of these misconceptions or conflicts and challenges or questions that arise can be dealt with. And I also think that’s the beauty of the long lead time involved in this process, cause it’s critical. And it allows time and space, I think, to build a relationship and to build a trust with the private landowners and land stewards as we’re working to make sure that we’re not leaving any species behind.
SM: Absolutely.
BW: So, I know that there are some landowner responsibilities, though, that come along with the Endangered Species Act. I think what we try to encourage private landowners with, and something that is and has been proven to be true over and over again is that a species becoming listed likely will not change everyday activities for most private landowners. Because most of the time, their property being a viable habitat is because of the practices they already have in place. So, if we were to change any of those, or shift any of them, it might change and shift the actual habitat. So, we’re grateful for those land stewards who are smart conservationists, they’re forward-thinking, they’re thinking about the land and the soil first, and what access to water and open space, healthy habitat and vegetation looks like. Which is incredible. Could you, though, in the case where we’re talking about landowner responsibility, could you talk a little bit about what limitations are placed on landowners as a result of the ESA? Do you think that in some cases, I know that landowners are afraid of possibly having big management changes when they do have threatened and endangered species on their property, could you talk about what those limitations and responsibilities are?
SM: Sure. Yeah. I mean, basically the big limitations are just not taking a species, and not disturbing its habitat if possible. Especially, so when a species is listed usually a critical habitat is also designated, and this is basically the habitat that the species needs to survive. For reproduction, feeding, nesting, whatever it is. Without it, they will go extinct. And this critical habitat can sometimes be a point of contention for landowners, but it really doesn’t significantly impact their day-to-day processes unless they are seeking federal funding or an authorization for an action using federal funds. So overall, for most landowners it really doesn’t impact them beyond not taking the species and their habitat.
BW: Mhmm. Which is incredible.
SM: Yeah.
BW: To think that, if it’s discovered that you have a threatened and endangered species on your property that your rights are so well-protected in most cases, for that to be really the only main limitation. So, are there opportunities that you have experienced, or been a part of for landowners to become involved in the actual process?
SM: Sure! Yeah, so there are a couple different avenues for landowners to become involved. So, one of them is Candidate Conservation Agreements, there are also Candidate Conservation Agreements with Assurances, and these are basically before the species is even listed. It gives landowners an opportunity to get in on the ground level, show that they’re already conserving these species, get some help with that, and, you know, if the species does eventually become listed, no further limitations are put on them. They’re basically beyond the “take” provision – they’re good to go. Another one is Safe Harbor Agreements, and these are after a species is listed. So again, landowners can get support for conserving these species that are already on their properties through these agreements, and really don’t have any other limitations put on them because of it.
BW: Right. I know right now, the Institute is working with several other organizations and partners in South Texas on the ocelot reintroduction viability research to see if that’s even a possibility to help rehab that population there. Which is an incredibly multi-faceted project, and I think most people have this idea of the ocelot and this love and this kind of enduring relationship and connection with the ocelot which is interesting, because at this point it’s, it’s almost become folklore.
SM: Yeah.
BW: Because hardly anyone has seen one unless you’ve been around the National Wildlife protection areas where they are. And the Safe Harbor Agreement is something that has been brought up because the ocelot has already been listed, as kind of a safeguard for those South Texas landowners who would want to voluntarily be a part of the extension of habitat for the ocelot. Which is an incredible opportunity I think to be a part of something like that.
SM: Oh my gosh I would love to see ocelots roaming South Texas again. Ugh. Amazing.
BW: A side bar here is that Shelby is also an artist in her free time, and one of her, I would say, I guess it’s kind of a recent piece of art is the ocelot…
SM: Mhmm.
BW: …and she also has stickers that she puts out of her art.
SM: And the ocelot one is one of my most popular. I just sent actually two down to Kingsville this week.
BW: Yeah, it’s so awesome. I have one on my Yeti, and my kiddo has one on his Yeti too. And he’s, you know, bringing our kids into these conversations is so critical because, you know, we talk about the students in the department, but really talking to the youth about endangered species and wildlife conservation can be so impactful. It’ll be interesting to see how something like an ocelot sticker, that awareness of an endangered species, has on him, cause he’s 5 as you guys know, so these are just really cool conversations to have him within earshot hearing that this is the work that we’re doing every day at the Institute. So, Shelby, I wanted to come back to this idea of possibly working towards getting a species delisted. What does that actually look like and does that even feel possible sometimes?
SM: Yeah, I mean it can sometimes feel quite daunting, especially when a species seems to be a bit far gone, but with enough effort I think most species can be brought back. And pretty much there are only 3 ways that a species can be delisted from the ESA. So either it has recovered to a point where it no longer needs to be listed, which is, you know, best case scenario, we all hope for that. Or they can be delisted because the original information in the listing was not correct, or – hey – maybe we found a new population. I know this has happened a lot with certain plant species.
BW: Right.
SM: Of just “hey we found some more of them! There’s a lot. They’re doing great. So, we don’t need to keep listing them”.
BW: Best case scenario.
SM: Yes. Or unfortunately the third one is they do become extinct. I believe there’s been a couple species where that’s happened, and unfortunately, we can’t save them all and we try our best. But to date I believe 97 species have recovered off the ESA including the bald eagle, American alligator, you know, great success stories. Yeah, and hopefully one day – the ocelot. That would be awesome.
BW: And that’s such an amazing thing to cling onto sometimes into these really long lead time projects, because it seems, you know, in just bird’s eye view of working at the Institute, and working with these partners, and I’m curious to know how this feels during the symposium, for some of these people who have been around since its inception – when you’re in the thick of it, when you’re right there in the middle sometimes it feels like there’s no light at the end of the tunnel. It feels like we are churning through resources and time and capacity to work for these wildlife, knowing that they have a purpose in the ecosystem and we cannot leave any species behind.
SM: Mhmm.
BW: But then you think “Is this worth it?” sometimes and you look at that number on the paper knowing that 97 species have been delisted in the last 50 years alone. That would not have happened without the work and the organization and the effort, the initiative, the landscape-scale impacts that have been driven by the Endangered Species Act. Which is monumental. Incredible.
SM: Yeah, it’s huge.
BW: So you kind of have to step back sometimes in this role of conservation and just really look at the bigger picture and the impact that we’re making, even with limited capacities.
SM: Yeah.
[Transition music]
[32:21]
BW: Exploring this topic with you, Shelby, is so interesting to me because as a communicator, my relationship with the research and the science that’s coming out of the Institute is truly about telling about the outcomes of explaining this story. And I have to sort of think of it in terms of there’s a problem, there are mixed variables, there are challenges within that problem, the research is critical, and talk about some of those, the outcomes and solutions that come out of research. And my window into the endangered species research and work that’s done when our crews are in the field is really small actually. And my interactions with the researchers who are out in the field in real time is kind of really at the mercy of what they have time for and how much interaction they are actually allowed to sometimes have with me as a communicator while they’re out there cause a lot of these topics are pretty sensitive, and we want to make sure that we’re sharing the most accurate and sound science anytime we’re sharing anything from the Institute. So, I would love to hear from you Shelby on what your perspective and your window is, your experiences are, with the specific threatened and endangered species that the Institute has had an opportunity to work on. I know in my beginning days, the very first species that I had the chance to really kind of talk about and share the data about was freshwater mussel species, and truly learning what it meant to look at them as an indicator species – a very critical part of an ecosystem that can tell us a lot about what’s going on that we may not be able to tell just by observation or through various other means of testing. So, knowing that these creatures were so critical for us to understand the health of their habitat was just huge for me. And I didn’t come from academia, coming into this, finding my way back into natural resources has just been, I mean an incredible experience, but specifically working with threatened and endangered species has been very eye opening for me. So, I would love for you to expand on some of the things that you’ve gotten to do. I have only once or twice been able to kind of, you know, sit there behind you, and try to stay out of the way, but also just try to follow you around and document what this process is actually like. So, I know that off the top of my head you have definitely worked in the field with research scientists looking to collect data on the Keys marsh rabbit. And then I know there are a couple of other ones, so I’d love to hear about some of that from you.
SM: So, I’d say my first experience with endangered species began during my master’s work. During that time, I was a part of the IUCN Red List Small Mammals group, which was a group of researchers and conservationists both here in the U.S., and across the pond in the U.K., who were tasked with assessing and reassessing all small mammal species in the world for the IUCN Red List. So that encompassed over 3000 species, I think we were one of the largest specialist groups out there. And while I was there for my master’s we were kind of right in the middle of reassessing every single small mammal species. So, I helped assess over a thousand of those for the Red List, and part of that involved, you know, communicating with experts in the field, people that have worked with these species for their whole careers to make sure we had the best data available for these assessments to make sure that they were as up-to-date as possible. Part of this process involved me going to both Mexico and Brazil to talk with some of these people in person, make sure we got the best data available, in the quickest time possible. So that was a really cool experience, I really enjoyed it.
So, once I started working for the Institute, I started working on multiple endangered species projects. I think the first one I was on was monitoring for South Texas ambrosia, an endangered plant species in South Texas. And we have a project down there going on for a few years now, at Naval Air Station Kingsville, just looking for that plant, seeing how it’s doing down there, and making management recommendations for how to, you know, improve management for it and increase its population on that installation. Another project I’ve been a part of is monitoring for Lower Keys marsh rabbits down on Naval Air Station Key West, and that’s been a super fun project that we’ve had down there for a long time, helping the Navy and U.S. Fish and Wildlife as well to monitor that species and track how they’ve been doing over the past years. A part of that monitoring for the Lower Keys marsh rabbit involves seeing how their populations have been doing since Hurricane Irma a few years ago. We had some of our researchers go down there basically right after the hurricane hit to see what their populations were looking like, and at first it wasn’t looking too great, but since then, they’ve rebounded and reached their previous hurricane population levels. They’re a pretty resilient little species even though they are considered endangered. At the Institute we’ve had quite a long history working in the Florida Keys. Our director, Roel Lopez, and his PhD advisor, Dr. Nova Silvy, have been the foremost researchers on Key deer down there, and they know basically everything about that species and have really helped further their conservation. The Institute also has worked with many other endangered species, such as the red-cockaded woodpecker, golden-cheeked warblers, we have a whole team here dedicated to researching freshwater mussels. A lot of those are considered for listing right now, we have, I believe one or two that are currently listed as endangered, and, you know, as water issues become more pressing here in Texas, I think more are going to be listed in the future. But we’ll just have to wait and see. Another species that we’ve worked a lot with is the gopher tortoise down in the Southeast. We have researchers down there monitoring their populations and participating in the gopher tortoise crediting system, which basically takes tortoises that would be impacted by development and transporting them to already established populations. So, bolstering those existing populations and making sure overall that there’s a net positive for the species. So that’s been really cool program that we’ve been a part of for a long time as well.
And if you want to learn more about all of these projects, you can go to our website, it’ll be posted in the show notes, and hope y’all go check it out!
[39:47]
BW: At the heart of the Endangered Species Act is a safety net for our nation’s wildlife, fish and plants on the brink of extinction. The Act protects thousands of endangered species and millions of acres of habitat. Flexibility, creativity, and collaboration thread continuously through the endangered species-focused efforts when we can resolve to leave a species status better than we found it. Through species status assessments, the science backbone determining listing, delisting and down listing decisions, and innovative solutions working to accomplish species conservation, we can develop necessary and revolutionary policy every year. At the end of the day, it's critical to conserve key habitats and populations, but the beauty of taking on this great responsibility is the opportunity to connect and work with private landowners, communities, industries, and the military. To celebrate 50 years of the Endangered Species Act this fall is to acknowledge the nation’s wildlife and wild places in its simplest form. At the Texas A&M Natural Resources Institute, it's an opportunity to reflect on the research sitting right there at the nexus of national security, conservation, and healthy working lands. Every day, we look to strengthen wildlife conservation and to keep the management of working lands and open spaces sustainable.
[41:20]
BW: Just honestly fascinating discussion today. I can’t thank you enough for being here, Shelby. For sharing your peek into threatened and endangered species work and this incredible opportunity that we have coming up next month to celebrate 50 years of the Endangered Species Act. I mean, to think about the opportunity to come together, to connect with these changemakers, and to extend that knowledge and wisdom to the next generation of endangered species stewards – the people who will be enacting the Endangered Species Act itself is just, I mean, truly profound. And then we get to have conversations about what the next 50 years might look like, and how we can reach forward and make positive impacts for the future. That’s huge, and kind of bewildering to think about that we’re right there in the middle of that conversation. So, for our listeners, thank you for being here with us. The Land Steward Podcast, again, has been years in the making, and we are honored to be here to share with you some of the information that we get to be a part of, and some of the initiatives that are going on. So please be on the lookout for part 2 of episode 2 about the Endangered Species Act, where we will be sharing with you a peek behind the curtain of what is happening at the Endangered Species Act symposium in Austin, in November. We will get to hear from some of the original authors of the ESA. So, with that, this is BW, I’m signing off, and we are just elated to be talking with you, and be on the lookout for part 2!
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